:: The S.I.C.L.E. Cell ::

:: Monday, February 28, 2005 ::

BTK: Blame Terri & Kill.

:: ashli 9:11 AM # ::
...

Regarding today's post (immediately below), a reader commented that while folks are trying to protect unborn people who carry genetic material for varying sexual orientations, sex selection abortions are currently in practice in America today.

I.E...

There's a bill to protect girls who like girls, but where's the bill to protect girls?

Indeed.

:: ashli 10:09 PM # ::
...

My best friend is gay, and I support this bill.

Tell a (gay) friend!

:: ashli 11:17 AM # ::
...

This is the last item in the a series of correspondence between myself and the individual over at Ambivablog as she chose not to respond.

AmbivaBlogger's comments in bold:

"What I mean by enslavement is the law saying if you get pregnant -- under any circumstances -- you MUST bear that child."

"you MUST bear that child" is just a byproduct of "you may not kill that child." "Your reproductive capacity is more important than you are, than any other aspect of your life is." [enslavement]* would be "you must conceive that child." different than: "you must not kill that child." in this case a child's life is more important than an individual's right to live as she wishes.

"Your womb is society's property."

not at all. i can do whatever i want with my womb. and these days, due to legalized abortion, i can do whatever i want with the child in it. again, if it takes a villiage to raise a child, it takes one to kill her. by illegalizing abortion the womb would not become society's property, but the safety of the child in it would become society's responsibility.

"If you are a young teen-ager who's raped by your mother's boyfriend; if you are a single mother with four or five or more children who doesn't know how she can financially support or care for another, you must bear that child."

rape... there will probably never be any anti-abortion law that doesn't maintain exclusions for rape and incest. unfortunately. i say "unfortunately", because i know a guy whose bmom was raped. she had him and made an adoption plan for him. he is now a happy guy with a family of his own. he is also a police officer and contributes to our world in a positive way. he didn't deserve to die for the crimes of his bdad.

no one is saying that his mother wasn't in an awful position. no one is saying that [a victimized woman] deserves to suffer or that she must carry a "rapist's" baby. [the latter would be a byproduct of "no one may kill an innocent child."]

there's a natural rub there, because either way, abortion or no abortion, she will suffer. and in the only study ever done on the subject [discussed in this book], she will probably suffer more if she aborts. but that's neither here nor there. abortion does not equate non-suffering. not for the child, not for the mother.

abortion does not make rape a victimless crime. abortion will not make the rape not have happened. it still will have happened. the woman will simply add to her own victimization the victimization of another person who is, like she was, powerless to stop it.

in our country at least, we simply don't execute a child for her father's crime. it's an issue of ethics. [you can't] extend this scenario outside of the womb; [it only works ethically if you] do not truly believe the gestating child is really a child, [and that would be] a flawed belief that science has long-disproved. in the case of the multi-child [mother]... again, it is not a demand for her to have the child, it is a demand for her not to kill the child. obviously that involves having the child.

a woman with gangrene in her leg must have her leg amputated. no one is saying "you must lose your leg." the idea is "you must save your life." that it involves losing the leg, though a negative experience, is not the point. the life-preserving physician is not an evil leg-stealer, but a life-saver.

"I'm talking about suffering."

women who are pregnant and don't want their child will suffer regardless. if they abort they will suffer (if the heart is functioning). if they adopt the baby out they will suffer (if the heart is functioning). if they have the baby and raise the baby at the cost of dreams that they do not feel were worth exchanging for a child's life [they will suffer] (if the heart isn't functioning).

"you wouldn't want a woman like that for a mother."

no one can choose their mother. my bmom is major, damaged goods. MAJOR.

"Yet you couldn't count on her giving you up for adoption. She'd bear you sullenly and then take it out on you. Children are at their mothers' mercy in so many ways."

that's the cruel nature of it, yes. but a child has the option of surviving... unless mother kills her. As you say, women have always aborted and always will.

"Abolishing it is a goal to strive for, like abolishing war."

i wouldn't necessarily agree that war and child killing are on the same level, but this is only because i think, at the crux of it, the so-called "necessity" of abortion is a lie.

"We need to become a better species, but how can we prevent abortion before we become a better species (and just in case we don't)?"

we don't wait. we simply issue a law, like all other laws, that says, "whether you want to be a good person or not, whether child-killing is ok with your or not, we are not going to allow it."

right now as i type, someone's new husband is entering her six-year-old's bedroom at night and raping him/her. our anti-child molestation laws have not stopped that and will not stop that. but we as a nation do not simply hang our heads and sigh that until we can change the rapist's attitude, we simply can not make his penis our property, dictating what he can and can not do with it.

"You say you would not have had your abortion if it had been illegal. Well, I would have had mine if it had been illegal."

and while our opinions are interesting, they have no bearing on ethics. [extend the logic outside the womb. imagine a mother infuriated by her 2-year-old:

mother A: "if it were legal, i'm so mad... that i would shoot her."
mother B: "it's illegal but i'm so mad... that i'm going to shoot her anyway."]

despite personal parental reasoning and logic, the only thing that matters is the [safety of the] child. in our society, child welfare is not ultimately left up to the parent... except for in that special case of abortion where a parent can legally kill her child.

"There's a good chance I would not have had it if the culture had told me the truth."

the culture that allows abortion is not a culture of life or a culture of truth. the culture that says it's ok to kill a child, is the culture we inherited in the 70's, and i can personally tell you what that breeds. there were, by far, fewer abortions when abortion was illegal. there is nothing that your solution nor my solution will do to stop abortion just as there is nothing anyone's solution will do to stop other types of murder or rape or spouse abuse or any other human crime. this doesn't mean we simply keep these things legal. what "cultural" benefit would society enjoy were rape NOT illegal?

"I'm thinking, restrict legal abortion to the first trimester unless the mother's life is in real danger."

but this defies your logic. what about the woman with 4 kids who simply doesn't know she is pregnant until the baby starts to move. according to the abortion-supporting alan guttmacher (sp) institute, there are plenty of those mothers out there. why all of a sudden can society "own a woman's womb" after 12 weeks? the ["rational"] answer is that it would just be "wrong" to kill a child after a certain number of weeks. so then we're practicing discrimination, because we are saying that a child has to possess certain ability [or appearance] or she is not worth protecting.

"Within those limits, let the woman be in charge of her own womb, but teach her what a sacred and terrifying responsibility that is."

we can't promote [the idea] that abortion is an horrific abuse of civil rights while at the same time keeping it legal. it would make us barbarians: "killing a child is a bad, bad thing... but we allow it."

ash

*For blog reader benefit I wanted to clarify a little of what I was trying to say in my email to Ambivablogger. Therefore, [] denotes comments added today.

:: ashli 1:38 AM # ::
...

AmbivaBlogger's response to my email:

"I was very struck by reading an article in the New York Times a few years ago about the pro-life daughters of pro-choice feminists. One of them said,

'Any one of us could have been aborted.'

That's going to be in the continuation of my essay. Also Ronald Reagan saying,
'I've noticed that those who are for abortion have themselves already been born.'

I said to my mother (who had 6 kids and no abortions and who's more 'pro-choice' than I am),
'You wouldn't have wanted someone to do that to you.'

And she said,
'If they had, I wouldn't exist to know the difference.'

I think that's disingenuous. It's easy for the living to say,
'I exist only by chance and that's fine with me.'

Talk is cheap. (The eerie thing is that if my mother's mother hadn't had the two abortions she had circa 1920, my mother probably wouldn't exist. These decisions are so frightening -- such power, exercised so blindly.)

What I mean by enslavement is the law saying if you get pregnant -- under any circumstances -- you MUST bear that child. (The mother's life or death maybe excepted.) Your reproductive capacity is more important than you are, than any other aspect of your life is. Your womb is society's property.

If you are a young teen-ager who's raped by your mother's boyfriend; if you are a single mother with four or five or more children who doesn't know how she can financially support or care for another, you must bear that child. I'm not talking about frivolity (although I believe some women do abort frivolously -- fewer now than 15 or 20 years ago, for which the credit goes to the pro-life movement). I'm talking about suffering.

(Of course, how are you going to distinguish the suffering from the frivolous? Since the frivolous will claim they are suffering. The bitch of it is, you wouldn't want a woman like that for a mother. Yet you couldn't count on her giving you up for adoption. She'd bear you sullenly and then take it out on you. Children are at their mothers' mercy in so many ways.)

As you say, women have always aborted and always will. Abolishing it is a goal to strive for, like abolishing war. We need to become a better species, but how can we prevent abortion before we become a better species (and just in case we don't)? I'm not sure coercion is the answer.

You say you would not have had your abortion if it had been illegal. Well, I would have had mine if it had been illegal. (I'm from the Sixties generation. We did a lot of things that were illegal!) There's a good chance I would not have had it if the culture had told me the truth.

I'm thinking, restrict legal abortion to the first trimester unless the mother's life is in real danger. Within those limits, let the woman be in charge of her own womb, but teach her what a sacred and terrifying responsibility that is. Scare the bejeesus out of her. And then promote every possible way of preventing pregnancy.

Maybe I'm wrong.

-AmbivaBlogger"

:: ashli 12:12 AM # ::
...

Sorry for the delay. I am reeeeeeeally busy.

Here's my response to AmbivaBlogger's last email:

"dear supreme writer,

this will be short only due to circumstances and not feelings...

i think women will abort children as long as women can get pregnant. legal or illegal. thinkable or unthinkable. it's going to happen. i value making it illegal for three reasons:

1. my mother would have aborted me if it had been legal. (she did abort my sibling when it was legal.)
2. no way would i have aborted if it had been illegal, a bad thing.
3. i don't like the idea of collectively condoning it. i think the national legality of it says a LOT. i'm not sure how we can get the point across, culturally, that it's a bad thing... while keeping it legal.

and you know... women are still aborting their children illegally even though it is legal. and women are still dying of illegal abortions.

ethically, i don't think we can legalize killing children no matter their age. i care for women, deeply. i wouldn't want the enslavement of women; i AM one. but... we can't detest/reject our own slavery while actively enslaving others. only talking about women does not bear in mind the children. and i just don't think it's cool to say, "ok, killing you kids is a bad thing that should be shied away from... BUT if your ma really doesn't want to be enslaved into perserving your life, then to hell with you really."

hillary said it takes a village to raise a child, but i think what i'm uncomfortable with is the fact that it also takes a village to legally kill a child.

laws-a-mercy.... screaming tot... needs must go.

love back at you,
ash"

:: ashli 1:42 AM # ::
...

Heartbreaking defense of one's own existence.

:: ashli 2:07 AM # ::
...

AmbivaBlogger's response:

"Ashli,

Thank you for your truly wonderful letter and your generous emotional response. You're a writer! As I suggested in my last comment, I think if budding young women want to keep on budding and be the center of the universe for a while they should do everything possible to avoid getting pregnant.

I don't think abortion is okay for the sake of self-development. I don't think the legality of abortion should encourage women to be careless about getting pregnant. I think women should be as terrified of having an (even early) abortion as they were when it was illegal because they have come to understand what it is.

What I worry about if it is made illegal is the desperate ones who are in a bad bind who will do it anyway. My grandmother told my mother that after my mom's older sister was born -- a very difficult birth followed by a severe postpartum depression -- she had two abortions before having my mom. This would have been about 1920. Her mother, a poor immigrant a generation earlier, had a very horny husband and no birth control. She had multiple abortions, at least one very bloody one on the kitchen table in front of her daughter, my grandmother, who was so traumatized she dropped out of high school for a year. Frank Sinatra's mother was an abortionist.

The point is, some women have always done this, like some men have always gone to prostitutes and used pornography. If we are to get almost completely beyond it, it will have to be through understanding, enlightenment, spiritual evolution. Outlawing it will not make it go away, just make it go underground.

I will say that law would not have stopped me from having an abortion, but culture -- hearing the truth, and maybe particularly the truth from an older woman, who knew about regret, and what's really important and lasting -- really might have.

I come back to: to force a woman to bear a child she conceives under any circumstances is a kind of slavery. (Maybe you have to remember a time when it was illegal to feel this way.) To persuade her to do so is something else entirely.

What infuriates me about the so-called "pro-choice" is that they don't want anyone to say what abortion really is because it makes them uncomfortable. They act as if they have a right to be comfortable and it's being violated by telling the truth, so shut up.

Well, I better shut up and write the actual essay.

love,
[AmbivaBlogger]"

:: ashli 9:55 PM # ::
...

I have been given permission to post an interesting exchange between myself and the blogger over at AmbivaBlog.

In regards to her post here, I responded very clearly (in lower-case for efficient, casual emailing):

"it is wonderful, wonderful! and tragic. i cried through much of it. you may find that curious, but i did, and i have my reasons.

you are a great writer. terribly great! i-want-your-autograph-great.

yes-but...

i have to say that some of what you said confused me. from them mention of part 2 in your email, i sort of get the idea that abortion is not acceptable to you... but from part 1 it almost looks as if the idea is that abortion is a necessary sorrow. perhaps this is just brilliant strategy on your part... something that will lure the abortion-advocate in and hold them steady long enough to catch a quick glimpse of the truth that is coming in part 2. i don't know. i'm merely, at this point, tonguing a "magda denes" aftertaste around feeling confused and a little wounded.

i'm for spiders. i'm for women. i'm for individuality, aspiration and self-direction. but i'm not for abortion. not for the sake of spiders or individuality, aspirations or even self-direction. i'm just not for killing children. it's not an ethical solution. i can't justify killing children to solve our problems or merely to enjoy certain freedoms.

i know a woman who aborted because she has my disease and it kept ripping her throat open. she almost bled to death in the snow in a hospital parking lot. they put her in a drug-induced coma and eventually aborted her baby because she really didn't have a snowball's chance. i can understand that. it was tragic, but seemingly a necessity. that is real. that is tangible. but none of this "budding young individual" philosophy, no matter how much i love it, impassions me into an acceptance of child killing. i do not believe that it is a necessity in such a situation. in a case where a parent absolutely does not want her child, not A child, but her child, then the pain of adoption, horrible as it is, should be endured in order to preserve the child that already lives. i would say this to a mother who felt she simply could not parent her 1-year-old. i would say this to any mother with a living child. it's just a civil rights thing with me. it's just the humane, evolved thing to do. that other aspects of my life also support the opposition of abortion is merely coincidental.

as i say, i am confused by some of your exquisite writing, so i may not be conveying an appropriate response. you may feel as i do. it may only appear that you are sad about your own child loss and yet support abortion. so forgive me if i've got it wrong.

you are, as i've said, an incredible writer, and i look fwd to reading your other installments and very possibly blogging about it. look fwd to dialoguing with you as well.

imho, particularly wonderful:

*the concept that suprise children before or after a death are "a smile through the tears"
(my aborted child was conceived 9 months after my precious mother died and killed 7 days after Mom's 1-year death anniversary)

*"...a sharp invasive pain in a place so inward that i could feel it was meant to be inviolable. i didn't make much noise and the young male doctor said, 'Good girl.'"
i cried just reading the perfection of the first part. the putting to words of such a personal feeling. it killed me. but then to hear the doctor's paternal pat on the head sent me into a scarlet, blinding rage. i wanted to smash my window and scream on my front lawn like a wild woman in the night.

*"it wasn't A baby. it was THAT baby."
amen and amen.

*"...growing and unfolding"
i saw a rose, a precious, beautiful rose. delicate, perfect, miraculous. a child. apart from opinion or circumstance... a growing child. an accuracy, a sweet photograph, a sonogram of words. unfolding, unfurling... breathtaking. thank you.

truly,
ashli"

:: ashli 6:46 PM # ::
...

More precious stories from the warm fuzzy mothers at I'm Not Sorry.

:: ashli 6:35 PM # ::
...

"I lured them into the mouth of a ravenous beast that devoured their children and spit the walking-wounded women back onto the street."

Did I say my posts would lately be rare if at all? Apparently what I meant was, they'll be more regular than ever.

(This is my blog on Metamucil.)

:: ashli 5:02 PM # ::
...

Buckle your seatbelt.

No, really...

An excerpt from a letter Patte sent to a local "pro-life" doctor who referred a woman for abortion at Orlando Women's Center, a late-term abortion facility in Orlando, Florida:

"I want to take a few minutes to give you some information about Pendergraft and Orlando Women's Center. James Pendergraft is a convicted felon. I have a letter that he wrote to me from his prison cell in Atlanta. He and his staff murder infants through all nine months of pregnancy.

From 16 weeks gestation, the protocol Pendergraft and his staff employ for abortion is Induction of Labor with Cytotec, commonly called the "Born-Alive" abortion method. I have personally heard testimonies of Pendergraft's own clinic workers in which they describe seeing these babies delivered alive and left to die. Here is the personal testimony of one of Pendergraft's employees I'll call 'Susanna' (Pendergraft is Dr X):

'I saw a lot of babies born alive ... Dr. X said that was a side effect of a medication. They always said to leave the baby alone, and they would stop breathing ... Two hours was the longest I saw a baby live ... One girl was 26-27 weeks ... They put the babies in red biohazard bags when they were still moving, tied the bag up, put them in a biohazard box. The biohazard medical service would pick boxes up Monday and Thursday.

Dr. X would insert the medication and send the women home. They were told to come back the next day. There was one incident where the woman had the baby while she was waitingat the door for the clinic to open. She got there at 7 a.m. The clinic opened at 8 a.m. She said the baby was born alive. The baby was now dead, and she was holding the baby in a bag. She was bleeding. I was in the room when Dr. X gave the digoxin to stop that baby's heartbeat beforehand.
[Digoxin is a medication inserted by needle througha mother's abdomen into a baby's heart to cause instant cardiac arrest.]
Well, he didn't have an ultrasound machine that day. He inserted the needle blindly. He said he'd been doing it so many years, he knew the location. But he didn't actually know if he hit the heart.

I know this nurse – Bridget. She was working there when the new doctor held a baby under water in a bucket when she told him the baby was alive. That baby was between 25-26 weeks. Bridget left two months ago because of that. I left because I got tired of everything going on and the fact Dr. Xwould coach women into saying they were going to kill themselves if they didn't abort. Then he said he had a legal right to do it [perform abortions] past viability. He did them all the way to 40 weeks.'

On February 12, 2004 I met a young lady named Tricia Marlena Feldman who aborted at 19 weeks at Orlando Women's Center. She saw her baby moving inthe toilet after she delivered him. When Tricia cried out at seeing her little boy alive the medical assistant told her to be quiet. The little boy was left to die in the toilet, wrapped in paper and burned as medical waste.

I hold in my hands the medical records of a 20-year-old woman named C.H. who paid for an abortion at Orlando Women's Center on November 15, 2001. She was evaluated there and found to be 22.3 weeks gestation. She arrived at9 a.m. and was induced with Cytotec. Through her entire induction-of-labor abortion experience she was NEVER seen by a physician. CH was attended by medical assistants and other staff members. CH left the Orlando Women'sCenter of her own accord while she was in labor at 1:30am. She drove herself home, called 911 and delivered a live baby girl at Arnold PalmerHospital at 4:30am. Her daughter is 3-years-old now.
Pendergraft, and the on-call abortionist Randall Whitney and Orlando Women's Center are being sued for the lifetime expense of caring for this poor little girl.

I've attached the story of another patient of Orlando Women's Center. Read for yourself how M.R. was perforated by one of Pendergraft's abortionists in December 2003. Abortionist Perper pushed the cannula through her uterus and rammed the fetus into her abdominal cavity. When they transferred M.R. to the hospital, they told the paramedics that she had already 'passed the POC' ['product of conception'], which was a lie. M.R.'s fetus was still inside her and was discovered during exploratory surgery.

Two of Orlando Women's Center employees died of drug overdoses from drugs they obtained from the medicine cabinet at Orlando Women's Center. Pendergraft is currently being investigated by the Department of Health for the death of RN Melissa White who died in her home on September 24,1999. Pendergraft was aware of Melissa's drug problem because she had passed out in the clinic twice, yet he continued to give her access to the drugs that ultimately killed her.

How can you, or anyone at your hospital or any other physician REFER women to Orlando Women's Center? Can you please help me understand how you, a professing Christian, can REFER your patients to the murderous James Pendergraft and his hellhole abortuary?"

:: ashli 2:55 PM # ::
...

(The hyperlink "Little Mary" is a color photograph of a late-term child aborted whole at Orlando Women's Center in Orlando, Florida. In the photo you will note the absorbant pad.)

It's Patte time...

"Yesterday we met half a dozen women who came to the abortion clinic to abort babies later in pregnancy. (Anywhere from 16 - 40 weeks.) "Linda" came with her boyfriend "Lee". Linda was aborting at 4 and 1/2 months because as she explained:

"I have a little baby already and this is just not the right time to have another one."

When I explained to Linda that she WAS going to have this baby because her abortion was actual labor-and-delivery, Linda casually said: "Oh, I know that." I showed Linda and Lee a photo of "Little Mary" who was aborted at Orlando Women's Center at the same age as Linda's baby, saying,

"This is exactly what your baby will look like. She may very well be alive when you deliver her. Then, she will be thrown away as medical waste. Your baby is not garbage, Linda. She's a little girl or a little boy."

Linda remained entirely untouched by the gruesome photograph of a real infant, bloody and lifeless, laying on the abortion clinic counter. I told Linda:

"There is no such thing as an unwanted child, only unwanting adults. There are wonderful couples on the adoption waiting list, Linda. You can choose the momma and daddy yourself. You can allow your baby to be placed into a home where she will be loved forever. You can even get assistance with your medical and living expenses. Linda, adoption is the way for you to do the right thing."

Linda dismissed the idea, saying:

"Oh, I could never do that."

I quickly corrected her,

"Yes, you could Linda, and we'll help you."

I asked Linda if she believe in God.

"Of course I believe in God. As a matter of fact, there's one thing I know for sure. If God didn't want me to abort this baby, He could have stopped me."

I looked Linda in the eyes and said,

"What do you think I am doing here?"

She smiled and thanked me and said that she had to go. She promised to read all of our material and think seriously about what I said. Linda and her boyfriend went inside the clinic. A few minutes later "Amina" arrived.

Amina explained that she had come to keep Linda company while she aborted the baby. Amina said that she didn't believe in abortion, but that she had to support her friend. Amina said:

"I have a beautiful little two-year-old daughter myself."

I asked Amina if she believed in God. She said:

"Yes, I sure do."

I asked,

"What do you think God thinks about abortion, Amina?"

Amina quickly replied:

"Oh, I know that God doesn't approve of abortion. My momma drummed that into my head."

Amina promised to go over our information packet with Linda and try to encourage her not to kill the baby. She also promised to remind her about adoption and to ask her to call the adoption agency telephone number written on the pamphlet I'd given them.

I prayed for Linda's baby and for the other five infants whose parents were killing them inside the clinic. I also prayed for all of the clinic workers, that they would be so disquieted in their souls that they simply could not bring themselves to destroy those precious, helpless infants.

The last bit of instruction I gave to Amina was:

"If Linda's baby is born alive, if she is moving in the toilet, call 911 right away."

Amina smiled and went inside."

:: ashli 7:49 PM # ::
...

Anyone in the Brandon, Florida area?

:: ashli 4:48 PM # ::
...

Howdy. I'm not going to be able to write much lately... or entries are going to be scarce, because I am working with an abortion-minded HG mom. She has LOTS of needs and meeting them all is proving to be quite challenging/taxing.

I ain't got time for this silly little blog, baby.

Instead of just sitting around whining about the exploitation and horror of abortion, this is one of those excellent opportunities where I can actually dig in and DO something about it with everything I've got.

So if you don't hear from me for a while, you know what I'm doing and that I'm doing it because women deserve better than abortion.

:: ashli 12:41 PM # ::
...

It's about time.

:: ashli 9:49 PM # ::
...